Dave Sahlberg

Friendly greetings. I like to trawl markets and thrift shops here in Cape Town for cool little objects and I picked this amazing ship on a bottle that seems to be dated from 1925. The glass is clear it and has a beautiful coastal diorama painted behind. I'm amazed at the intricate rope work and there's even another smaller boat in there as well. The bottom of the bottle is marked: A 4 E / C 6 / UGB and its sealed with cork and wax. Incidently, I paid R80 which converts to just less than $5. 
I thought this community forum might appreciate the lucky find and hoping the experts here might be able to share any extra info.
 

 
 

First off, I'd like to thank you guys of the forum and most of all Daniel Siemens, for all the wonderful knowledge,help and encouragement I've had the pleasure to receive during the undertaking of this build. My hope with this piece meal presentation is that some other novices out there can benefit fro m my particular experience in some way. So here we go.
In almost every way this build incorporates techniques and processes I've never tried before and only became aware of through the pages of this forum and discussions with Daniel. Along the way I had to contrive some methods to get things done, some of which I'll share here. As I was going along I also found myself tearing things down and starting over again and again because I did something that wasn't going to work and had to fix that, testing my patients all the while. After a two month period of time working most every day on it, I came up with a, I think, pretty decent generic brigantine that I basically modeled after this silhouette.
I had never built a SIB model with more than one square sail on it before so I've been itching for years now to get to that place where I could confidently build square riggers. For the most part, the majority of the dozen or so SIBs I built years ago were schooners or sloops of one kind or another.
MY FIRST CLAY SEA MATERIAL:
I decided earl on after looking at some of the seas in pictures on this forum that I was going to use clay for my sea instead of what I had been using which was blue RTV silicone. Here's a picture of what my seas use to look like.

I read everything I could find on the forum that addressed sea material, which is quite a lot actually. With some further input from you guys, I finally decided to go with a PLASTALINA type clay made by VAN AKEN. After working with the stuff throughout the course of this adventure I've decided that I love it. I made a really nice sea for my ship. I also found out that it melted easily over my stove burner to fuse well to the bottom and sides of the bottle.
An incidental discovery with this material was that if you expose the top surface of this clay once it's in the bottle under the close light of two 100 watt shaded trouble lights, the glass will heat up and after a while the surface of the clay takes on a satin like wet look which I think is SWEET. I can't tell you how long that process took for sure or how hot the glass got. I do know that it became apparent to me that the sea was getting shinny around the time I had been working inside the bottle on the rigging for about a couple of hours.
About the 100 watt trouble lights. I like to work with as much light as close as possible to whatever I'm working on. In this scenario I had a light on the right side and a light on the left side about four inches away from the bottle. I'll certainly be utilizing this characteristic that this clay exhibits when heated from above on my next build, too.
HOW I MIXED MY SEA COLOR:
I made a sampling chart of the five different clay colors that I purchased to come up with the color I chose for this ships sea. I've put all the combinations of clay that I mixed on a stick and numbered them 1 through 11. To this I've attached a print out of the picture of their proportions before mixing for future reference. I'm sure I will want to use a range of sea color possibilities in the future. I know that there are far more combinations I could have mixed but for now these 11 will suffice.

SIZING THINGS UP:
I've always liked the Pinch bottle 5th and the way a ship looks in it. It's kinda dreamy looking to me and so I chose it for this build. Besides I had one on hand I've been dragging around for eons. LOL.
I basically scaled up a drawing of the ship from the silhouette I found on line. I made a hull blank and put it inside the bottle, held that drawing up to the glass to get a good idea of how much of the bottle would fill up with ship.


Although I didn't know it at the time that I did my sizing process, Daniel has a much more accurate way to do it in his tutorial on, "How to build a Bermuda sloop (for beginners)", which you can find on this forum under the menu selection called, Build Logs. Check it out! A great deal of what I have come to do on this build of mine is a direct reflection of the things I've learned from his tutorial. Anyway somewhere in the beginning of his tutorial he shows how he makes a paper cutout of the ship and puts that cutout inside the bottle. Wish I knew how to put a link to his tutorial right here but I don't so you'll have to look it up. It's a treasure trove of technique and process for sure.
THREAD BLOCKS:
Yet another first for me is this thing called a thread block. There's a nice video on Daniel's tutorial by a guy named John Fox III, that shows how to make them. I had never known about them before and how useful they are especially in doing the running rigging for square sails. I made some the way John shows in the video and also came up with another way to put them on the end of my yards which was easier for me. I was also introduced to the Cow Hitch that is used on the center of the yard to attach it to the mast allowing the yard to pivot around. Between these two concepts, it dawned on me how I would be able to rotate the sails out of the way to get them through the neck of the bottle and because the running rigging freely passes through both thread block on the ends of the yard I would be able to set the tack of the sails once everything was inside the bottle.Pretty neat.
Basically I made my thread blocks for the yards by holding a piece of wire in my vice. I secured the yard to the wire with a piece of masking tape being mindful of the correct orientation of where the Cow Hitch was and where the blocks needed to be. I made a mark on the wire where I wanted the block located from the end of the yard. That way I could duplicate the same location on the other side. When one thread block was done I slid it off the wire, flipped the yard 180 then put it back on the wire and tied the other one.

PAPER SAILS AND SPANKER:
Okay for the first time I'm using paper sails too. In the past all my builds had cloth sails because I had always had a problem with kinking paper going down the neck. Fabric was much more compliant for me. Another thing that I gleaned from Daniels, process was that the spanker sail has to come way away from the mast in order to get through the neck and unscathed. In my case I made a yolk crutch to wrap around the mast for the end of the boom out of a piece of brass wire. I drilled a hole through the mast at the spot where the boom would be nesting. Then I made two wire blocks and tied them to the boom.The running rigging for the spanker sail's sheeting goes through them and the hole then forward all the way out of the bottle.This configuration worked out perfectly for me as the gaff was able to move way out of the way along with the boom when the time came. So no kinked spanker.


Incidentally, the travelers you see in my pictures are "Mini Swing Line Stapler", staples. I've used them on almost every ship I've made for that purpose. Sometimes I put a radius on them. On this build I also used four of them to attach my rat lines and back stays onto. Ironically, using the staples this way would later save my ass , as you will shortly come to see.
LESSON LEARNED
These pictures show a couple of things. The first thing that is evident, (to you old salts anyway), is that my ratlines and back stays are too far forward of the center line of the mast to ever lay down flat. When the time came to fold down the masts and I discovered that they wouldn't lay down I almost had a heart attack. Disaster! At one time I must have known about the importance of these elements locations relative to the pivot point of the mast because all my builds were successful in the past in this regard. But over the years I just totally forgot about it. Anyway, after a while of total dismay and a whiny conversation with Daniel, it came to me that I could remove the staples that the ratlines and back stays were attached to and relocate them back and up. That solved the problem and is an example of one of the tear downs I was speaking about in the beginning of this discourse. I wasn't able to get those lines as tight as they were and that's a huge disappointment. Another thing that the pictures show is the way I chose to step the masts. In the past I always used the wire hing method but this time I decided to use clock bearings. These bearings are put in old clocks when the original bearings are worn oval over time. It just so happens that I also restore antique clocks for a hobby too and have these bearings on hand.The one side of the bearing has a counter sink on it to hold oil for a gears pinion shaft. that counter sink was mounted up so the mast with a rounded bottom nested in the countersink just fine. In the future I'm just going to drill a divot on my deck to do this . it's a lot less work.

SECURING THE SHIP IN THE BOTTLE:
I put a trough in the middle of my sea material and found some of that white 5 minute epoxy at Home depot that Daniel had spoken about somewhere on the forum. Can't remember where but anyway it worked out great. There was a little bit of it that oozed up around the hull but I covered that up with white clay to look like the wake of a ship moving through the water.
 

 SETTING MY SAILS TACK INSIDE THE BOTTLE:
I'm sure that there is some way to avoid what I had to do to come to the point of sail I wanted for my ship but as yet I don't know that. Basically I made my sea to reflect a reaching tack which meant that everything had to be adjusted from how it was built outside the bottle for that tack inside the bottle. For the boom and gaff of the spanker sail I used a piece of wood to lean against the top end of the gaff which held it there while the CA glue dried. I pushed the boom out with a wire tool and tightened the sheeting of the sail from outside the bottle. At this point I glued the yolk and sheeting line off with CA. Then I went in with a razor on a wire and cut the sheeting line off at the front of the mast where it came out of the hole.

ADJUSTING THE YARDS:
To pull the yards over for the reach tack I made a slip knot lasso and used that to grab the outside end of the yard arm and pull it forward careful all the while that the running rigging was moving through the thread blocks on either side of the yard arm without hanging up. Worked like a charm. I then went in and touched the Cow Hitch at the mast with some CA glue to set it. I waited a minute before I let go of the tension on the lasso I was using to hold the yards position.To be doubly sure the sail would stay put I removed the lasso and touched the outside thread block where the running rigging touched it with the CA glue. The only problem with this process aside from being tedious is that it is difficult to get all the yards on both masts to have the same degree of angle when it's all said and done. There's got to be a better way to do this, I mean to have the tack of all the sails predetermined before it goes in the bottle? Perhaps some of you guys can pipe in on this issue?
One other thing that I learned about CA glue is it will for sure fog up the inside of your bottle if you use a lot of glue like I did inside. So best, if you can turn the bottle up to let the off gasses from the glue escape better. Even so be prepared to spend hours inside with Windex and a piece of cloth scrubbing the glass clean again. Big Pain In The Ass. Better yet plan the build to use a minimal amount of glue inside.


SUMMING UP:
There are a whole lot of more topics I could have touched on in this discourse but If I go on about it, it's kinda like someone saying , I could write a book. So I'm leaving it here. I sure learned a great deal during this build doing things for the first time was daunting in some respects but I survived the fray.
I'd also like to say that it sure is nice to have a place like this to share our projects with other like minded nut cases because let's face it no average person on the planet has a clue about the work we do creating these little engineering marvels. There is so much to learn in this wonderful medium and I'm excited about the future builds I'm dreaming of already.
Great to have my feet wet again. Thanks for reading mate. Best regards Bruce.
 
 

Thanks Dave.

Well done. It looks fantastic 

Finally the square sails could be added.  The material for the sails is much like what I have been using for years, a light weight paper colored with a warm gray magic marker.  Instead of using the point of a pin to scribe the seams or “clothes” of the sails I returned to an older idea and used a hard pencil.  Seams made with the pin tend to crack and split, and at this scale that could be quite a problem.  In spite of using a #9 pencil, the seams, only on the weather side, look a little too heavy to me. 

 
The final details are the boats and anchors, and I almost always put these off until the last.  Good miniature boats can be nicely made of paper but I’ve had no success with that technique at this scale.  There are carved out of pine and have paper thwarts.  Like the catwalk railing, these details may be more a challenge at this scale than they are really worth.  But not having them no would look worse, I think, so the attempt is always made. 
 

 
 
The bottle that renewed my interest in this project is a hand blown bottle by Michael Magyar from Cape Cod.  It is obviously intended to recall the classic pinch bottle, but happily is slightly longer and better accommodates a long ship like this bark.  My friend and fellow ship bottler Gerry Ross knows Michael and sent one of these bottles as thanks for getting John Guley to complete a prototype of a kit Gerry was trying to develop  John and I decided to give it to Charlie Ryan, another ship in bottler,  but John got in touch with Michael about ordering more.  After some back and forth we ordered 10 and split the order between us.  For the first of my five I bottled the 5 mast two topsail schooner Carl Vinnen. 
 

 
The glass clarity is wonderful but the inside shape creates a couple of problems.  The narrow corners inside are a little difficult to fill with putty and then get a smooth sea surface.  It takes going back over a number of times.  The corner on top, above the ship, is so narrow I was concerned whether the upper yards would have been braced around far enough for them to fit in this limited space.  The indent on the side of bottle underneath the ship protrudes so far into the bottle the putty base above it is very shallow.  But with the deep corners, the bottle takes a surprising amount of putty.  But there was an unexpected bonus.  Two air bubbles on the port side wound up acting as miniature magnifiers
 

 
The bottling took about a week between getting her in and feeling all was well enough finished.  Most of the difficulty was not having a secure enough bond with the putty sea, so that as I increased the tension on the stays, the model tended to head back towards the neck.  I got over this by fashioning a section of coat hanger wire bent to hold the hull in place and taped to the outside of the bottle neck with duct tape.  It is the first time I ever tried this, and I wonder if I’d recommend it.  But in this case, it worked.
 

 
The putty was put in the bottle months before.  Because of the effects of oil staining sails, I have greatly increased the lead time between setting the putty in and finally bottling the ship.  In spite of this lead time, the slight contact with the putty surface when bottling this ship immediately doused lower starboard sails with oil.  This may eventually become lighter, but the effected area will always be more translucent than the rest of the sails.  It may also spread, though I have rarely seen this with square rigged sails.
 
I first encountered this problem years ago when the late George Pinter from Halifax, Mass, recommended I use plumber’s putty instead of the glazing putty I had been using.  It took color well and was easy to shape into the bottle.  Unfortunately, the heavy oil content of the plumber’s putty began to stain the sails like this.  It also is supposed to never harden completely, and when the putty sea in a bottle I shipped to a gentleman in Texas became detached en route, that was it for me, and I returned to glazing putty.  Sadly, this oil staining has returned in the past couple of years, and I need to solve this.
 

 
Otherwise, this particular model was especially satisfying.  We all have early dreams and visions that inspired us to take on this kind of work.  For many of us, these are now many years old.  This model does not succeed in many ways, and has a number of details that could have been, and should have been better.  But it also succeeds enough in fulfilling early inspirations of mine to be encouraging, and give me hope there may well be similarly rewarding models in the future.
 
 
 
 
 

Almost ready for launch, more lessons learned more mistakes but that’s the process 

This is the result I’ve had from using cotton thread and running it through beeswax. The wax seems to go flaky after passing through the rough holes. I’m not satisfied but, will persevere for this model. Going to try some different techniques going forward. Thank you to all who have given advice in this thread. 

Does anyone else get “help” from their  pets. 

I use quilting threat and polyester thread, both are nice and smooth and also glue well. 

Fly tying threads are the best if you are building small and to scale, as much as possible anyway. I don't have the URL for a site, but to keep from thread separation purchase waxed thread, but drag it through a tissue or cloth to remove most of the wax, otherwise it will build up when the thread is pulled through a hole or block. I tend to use very fine, 8/0, 10/0 or thinner, i.e. higher number, and look online to find mono thread for the most part. This thread is a single fiber, so there is no separation.
Hope that helps! If I run across the site where I got mine I will update and send along the URL.
Anchor's A Weigh!
John Fox III

Thanks for having me as a member. I first bottled a ship about twenty years ago. I found Jack Needhams book in my local library and was amazed that the “secret” was published. I did about half a dozen. I haven’t done any for about fifteen years. Just starting again. I have built myself a workbench that goes over my recliner so that I can model in comfort of an evening after working on noisy construction sites all day. I’m hoping to gradually improve my skills and to bottle ships that are/were important to my local waters.
Dave

My guess is that it was made by Léon Labistour or his wife Patricia. I have a book on how to make ships in bottles by Léon and a book by Patricia called “A Rum Do” which is about the days of smuggling in Robin Hoods Bay. My first in-laws were from Nottingham and, on a trip they took back to England, they visited Robin Hoods Bay and bought me Patricia’s book while there. I can’t identify the ship in the bottle though. 

My guess is that it was made by Léon Labistour or his wife Patricia. I have a book on how to make ships in bottles by Léon and a book by Patricia called “A Rum Do” which is about the days of smuggling in Robin Hoods Bay. My first in-laws were from Nottingham and, on a trip they took back to England, they visited Robin Hoods Bay and bought me Patricia’s book while there. I can’t identify the ship in the bottle though. 

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Thanks for sharing Bob. It’s a really nice video. 

I have been absent a while (because of my chronic illness again), but I love this forum! I've noticed that there is very little posting and interaction now.  I would urge those who are in the know to respond to new people joining and asking questions if you can. Kind of off-putting for someone to get excited about finding this forum and getting no responses at all the first time they ask for help about something in this wonderful world of SIB. I really hope the activity picks back up. I would really miss this if it was gone. 

Nice!

I’m also old in my head. My wife jokes that I’m 45 going onto turning 90. 😂🤣. I’ve only just discovered this forum and sadly, it seems, most of its activity is from years ago. There is a lot of great information here. Surely, having a dedicated forum is better than using facebook. Facebook has too many distractions. Keep posting my SIB friends. I have learned so much already and been amazed at how good some of you are. 

Thanks for having me as a member. I first bottled a ship about twenty years ago. I found Jack Needhams book in my local library and was amazed that the “secret” was published. I did about half a dozen. I haven’t done any for about fifteen years. Just starting again. I have built myself a workbench that goes over my recliner so that I can model in comfort of an evening after working on noisy construction sites all day. I’m hoping to gradually improve my skills and to bottle ships that are/were important to my local waters.
Dave

Hello and thanks for accepting me to your group. I recently completed my first SIB after years of wanting to try and now I’m hooked. Loved looking through the posts here and already learned so much, a bit to late for this project but planning the second one now 

Buenas y saludos:
Les comparto el paso a paso de este bote, faltan algunas imagenes pero creo que se pueden interpretar, cuando estaba colocando la primera vela dentro de la botella al cortar los hilos sobrantes, la hoja me jugó una mala pasada, ustedes vean algunas imagenes raras de hilos sueltos y se daran cuenta que es cuando sin querer corte un hilo por que paso y como lo reconstrui, de todos modos ya saben si alguien quiere informacion especifica de alguna imagen solo tiene que preguntar, con gusto lo hare ayudarlo y explicar todo lo que quiera, cuando uso el traductor de Google, me resulta inaccesible comentar imagen por imagen y ahora me estoy quedando sin tiempo.
Gracias por su comprensión.
 
 





































































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Thanks for having me as a member. I first bottled a ship about twenty years ago. I found Jack Needhams book in my local library and was amazed that the “secret” was published. I did about half a dozen. I haven’t done any for about fifteen years. Just starting again. I have built myself a workbench that goes over my recliner so that I can model in comfort of an evening after working on noisy construction sites all day. I’m hoping to gradually improve my skills and to bottle ships that are/were important to my local waters.
Dave

Yes it did.     New Zealand and Australia from the UK was its trading route.   She belonged to Henderson, and they had a few sailing ships with New Zealand names - Dunedin, Canterbury, Invercargill, Auckland, Nelson, Wellington, Oamaru and Timaru.     Some of them were the first ships to carry frozen meat home from NZ using dry air compressers powered by coal, even though the ships were only propelled by sail.   Dunedin carried the first frozen lamb carcasses in 1882, leaving Port Chalmers on February 15th, and arriving in London on May 26th, with the cargo in perfect condition.  
It is a great pity that very few modellers are interested in these magnificent iron and steel sailing shipsof the late 19th century.
The square ports on the sides were just painted on for decoration, they did not conceal guns!
Bob