Landlubber Mike

WD-40 will also cut the adhesive and after that you will need denatured alcohol to get the bottle really clean again. I had started a thread here about grinding of details on bottles and it appears nobody has tried it and its likely not practical- I am sure you could grind off raised details using a dremmel but I doubt you could polish the scratched up and fogged  glass back to a state of transparency.
My advice on bottles is try and err on the side of thicker glass. I had found some very cheap juice product bottles I liked- it was some awful juice mix they were selling at the dollar store- and these were great but the glass was very thin and two of them have broken now.

For removing stubborn adhesive I've used a Turtle Wax product named Bug, Tar and Tree Sap Remover available in automotive supply stores and the automotive supplies sections at chains like Wal-Mart.  It employs petroleum-based solvents so use it in a well ventilated place.  Pour a drop on the target area, lay on a covering of paper towel to retard evaporation a bit, wait, and rub off.  It also works on chewing gum.  It might also work on the black lot numbers as well, although I've found that they can be flaked off with gentle application of a #11 Xacto knife blade.

Mike Graff

Yesterday this project was completed ))

I acquired a bunch of bottles over the last few months (mostly liquor bottles), and have picked out two that I'm going to use for my next SIB builds.  They were pretty clean already, but I went ahead and cleaned them out using the technique in Hille & Young of rinsing them with water (I used distilled water to help avoid spots), a quick scrub with a bottle brush, and then a rinse with isopropyl.  Turned them upside down to dry, and now I have nice clean bottles when it comes to the inside.
 
For the outside of the bottle, I had a couple of questions:
 
1.  For labels, I pre-soaked the bottles for a while in warm water and then did my best to peel them.  Some came off no problem.  Others, I had to use a bit of Goo-Gone (usually used to get the adhesive off store price stickers) to get off the remnants of the adhesive.  A few of them appear to have used an adhesive that even Goo-Gone doesn't seem to work on.  Any other suggestions on what to use?  Would acetone work?  I was going to use my wife's nail polish remover, but I'd probably have to use the full container
 
2.  For very minor scratches in the glass, is there a way to buff them out?  I know there is a product and cloth you can use for plexiglass, but wasn't sure if there was any for regular glass.  These appear to be surface scratches, and not deep or anything.
 
3.  Some of the bottles seem to have a printed lot or serial number - very tiny, and in black.  I didn't want to try rubbing or otherwise scratching them off for fear of scratching the glass.  Are there any techniques to remove them?  Would the glass buffer stuff in #2 above tend to work?
 
 
At this stage, since I'm very new, I'd rather just use cheaper bottles, even if they do have slight imperfections.  When I get better, I'll be more apt to spend money to get better quality glass products, like the chemist flasks and other similar products that folks are using.
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Mike

Deepwater Sail by Harold A. Underhill is another good book.   Quite thick and has loads of fold out plans of sailing ships in it.
Bob
PS
Here is Squirrel built from plan in Schooner Sunset.

I now have Schooner Sunset and am thoroughly enjoying it. It's an ILL so it's got to go back mid September. On another note I did a deal with Charlie B for Underhill's book Masting & Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier. I built a kit for Charlie to model a Pilot Cutter and sent it to him in the post. He reciprocated and sent me my second book that I now own by author and illustrator Harold A. Underhill. I am officially starting a collection of all of his books.
 

 

 
I hope to get into the Man Cave this Sunday after church and do some work on the Preussen .... Jeff
 
 

I put this on U Tube some time agao, and forgot all about it.   Came across it again today.    It is the building sequence of a miniature of the Norwegian barque Svaerdstad.
Bob
https://youtu.be/eNgATFUqBLA

The pirate rein-actors have requested another ship.  This time for a crew called the Scavenger which is the name of this ship.  I got lucky with my first commission from the pirates because they had a full set of plans.  This time I had to piece together a few things based on the request.  I think the customization will make this build fun though.  
 
The plans I chose were from a 1712 ship called the greyhound.  It didn't have sail plans though so I put some on.  The masts are a bit thick on the plans which I'll have to adjust on the ship.  As usual my plans come from the Story of Sail.  
 

Here are the files that Alex mentioned.  One is a jpeg for viewing and then a pdf if you would like to print it.
Alex,  Thanks for sending these to me. 
Gwyl
 

 
Friendship Sloop.pdf

I ordered the "Ship Models in Glass" from Hille and Young via the link that Alan provided.  Wow, it's an amazing book!  I've only had a few minutes to flip through it, but it seems incredibly comprehensive.  I have probably half a dozen other SIB books, but this one looks like it could be the bible of them all. 
 
There's about 150 pages of in-depth, how-to instructions - here are the chapters:
 
1.  Techniques
2.  Tools of the Trade
3.  Materials
4.  Bottles, Stands, & Embellishments
5.  The Sea
6.  Seascapes & Dioramas
7.  Hulls
8.  Fitting out the Deck
9.  Masts & Spars
10.  Rigging the Model
11.  Sails, Flags & Flag Lore
12.  Books, Plans & Nautical Terms
 
There are also four projects in the book, so fewer than maybe some of the other books out there, but very detailed instructions.  Finally, there are a few appendices on suppliers, pattern sheets (sails, flags and detailing), and a bibliography.

I ordered the "Ship Models in Glass" from Hille and Young via the link that Alan provided.  Wow, it's an amazing book!  I've only had a few minutes to flip through it, but it seems incredibly comprehensive.  I have probably half a dozen other SIB books, but this one looks like it could be the bible of them all. 
 
There's about 150 pages of in-depth, how-to instructions - here are the chapters:
 
1.  Techniques
2.  Tools of the Trade
3.  Materials
4.  Bottles, Stands, & Embellishments
5.  The Sea
6.  Seascapes & Dioramas
7.  Hulls
8.  Fitting out the Deck
9.  Masts & Spars
10.  Rigging the Model
11.  Sails, Flags & Flag Lore
12.  Books, Plans & Nautical Terms
 
There are also four projects in the book, so fewer than maybe some of the other books out there, but very detailed instructions.  Finally, there are a few appendices on suppliers, pattern sheets (sails, flags and detailing), and a bibliography.

I ordered the "Ship Models in Glass" from Hille and Young via the link that Alan provided.  Wow, it's an amazing book!  I've only had a few minutes to flip through it, but it seems incredibly comprehensive.  I have probably half a dozen other SIB books, but this one looks like it could be the bible of them all. 
 
There's about 150 pages of in-depth, how-to instructions - here are the chapters:
 
1.  Techniques
2.  Tools of the Trade
3.  Materials
4.  Bottles, Stands, & Embellishments
5.  The Sea
6.  Seascapes & Dioramas
7.  Hulls
8.  Fitting out the Deck
9.  Masts & Spars
10.  Rigging the Model
11.  Sails, Flags & Flag Lore
12.  Books, Plans & Nautical Terms
 
There are also four projects in the book, so fewer than maybe some of the other books out there, but very detailed instructions.  Finally, there are a few appendices on suppliers, pattern sheets (sails, flags and detailing), and a bibliography.

I edited an article on vertical models by Paul Stanton, of Nova Scotia, for Bottle Shipwright, and this taught me much of what I've learned about this option. It's a great alternative for presenting handsome vessels that happen to be taller than they are long, such as sloops, yawls and some schooners. I have been trying to combine the simple, natural wood presentation of a half model with a rigged ship in bottle. Here is one attempt, with the ever lovely Friendship Sloop in a liter bottle. The sloop is a small enough boat so that at this scale, 12' = 1", it allows for some working rigging. The topsides and cuddy are holly, there's an ebony wafer at the waterline and the hull below is pear. Deck planking is box and the cockpit siding is seasoned pine. The stand is oak, and it might not have been a great idea to carve this long a name into it. As David says, this lady did go in bow first.

Thank you guys, this is all incredibly helpful.  Lots to think about!  I'm excited about scratch building a SIB.  It will be a nice mental break from my current stage of planking the hull of my larger build, a 1:64 model of the sloop Pegasus of the Swan class:
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/7267-hms-pegasus-by-landlubber-mike-amativictory-models-scale-164/

Yesterday, I re-organized my work desk.     I raised the top by three inches, creating a space under it for trays of wire, tools, etc.     Also added sides to stop small pieces falling off.    The switchboard at the back has four switches on it.  
Left to right, Desk lamp, DVD player, Soldering iron and Desk power sockets.    Each switch has a neon lamp indicating it is on.      In the past, I have often left my soldering iron on by accident.   The lamps prevent this.
I never listen to music whilst working - I prefer talking books.      I have become so "automatic" that I can take in the story, whilst building the model.
Bob
 

Thank you guys, this is all incredibly helpful.  Lots to think about!  I'm excited about scratch building a SIB.  It will be a nice mental break from my current stage of planking the hull of my larger build, a 1:64 model of the sloop Pegasus of the Swan class:
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/7267-hms-pegasus-by-landlubber-mike-amativictory-models-scale-164/

Thank you all very much for your thoughts.  I think I'm going to start with a generic model as you all suggest, unless something jumps out at me (the Regulus is very nice indeed).  I've tabbed a bunch of pictures in my books for potential subjects which can probably help when it comes to deck details.  
 
I'll definitely start on the easier end of the scale.  I have some SIB experience building the Amati Hannah SIB kit, but things obviously are a little different when scratch building.
 
Thanks very much again, I really appreciate it!

I had a similar experience up north but different. We used to work stupid hours 16, 18, 20 hour days as there was nothing else to do in the ocean environment. A loader operator dropped an 8" heavy wall sea line that I was welding on for the desalination supply line to the camp and rig. I missed the crew change I was supposed to leave on by 5 days. I left earlier as my right leg was so swollen I could barely walk so I had to go on compensation and leave the theater. The men on that fateful day I was supposed to fly out from the rig to TUK Base weren't so blessed, in fact maybe cursed depending how you look at it... The transmission in the chopper sized up and two pilots and 8 oil field workers crashed straight into the ice killing all on board. The good Lord had his hand on me and knew the future before it even happened! I am saved by grace today due to that event.
Jeff

Quick update.  Received the three books I purchased on the web.
 
I received Tyrone G Martin's "A Most Fortunate Ship, A Narrative History of Old Ironsides" revised edition (1997) first and read it straight through that day and the next. A wonderful read covering Constitution's history from design through Commander Martin's tenure in command from 1974 to 1978. He was the first officer to be decorated for his service while in command of Constitution since Hull, Bainbridge and Stewart received Congressional Gold Medals (the forerunner of the Congressional Medal of Honor - Preble received a Congressional Gold Medal in the First Barbary War) during the War of 1812. Constitution received its first unit citation while under Martin's command. He instituted the wearing of War of 1812 uniforms by officers and crew, the daily firing of dawn and sunset salutes and the annual turnaround cruise on the 4th of July and firing of the nation's birthday salute at noon. Most important were his successful efforts to change the policy, at the time, of repairs as needed to one of regularly scheduled preventive maintenance and the step by step restoration of Constitution's configuration to that of her glory years. Commander Martin is considered one of the foremost authorities on Constitution. The book itself was used, at an excellent price, with only some slight edge tears of the dust jacket. I'm currently reading it again in detail. It also gives an excellent insight into life at sea during the early years of the sailing US Navy. Very highly recommended even for someone not interested in modelling the Constitution. I'm considering getting the first edition just to see what was changed in this edition.
 
"The Boats of Men-of-War" by W E May (1999) arrived next. It is a slightly revised edition of the 1974 edition with corrections by Simon Stephens as a result of new information found in the 25 year interval. The National Maritime Museum (in Greenwich, England) holds the copyright. I bought it for more specific information on the boat types used on Constitution and as a reference book for my library because it is considered by many to be the definitive work on the subject. It is full of photos of models, boat plans and tables of component dimensions and covers wooden boats used on warships from the 17th century through the first half of the 20th century. Very comprehensive but definitely not needed by the average ship modeler. This copy was also purchased used at a bargain price but arrived in almost new condition.
 

Constitution is known to have carried two launches, four cutters and a gig in the battle with Guerriere.
This photo (ca. 1880) from May's book clearly shows the differences between these three types.
The boat in the foreground is a gig, the one behind it is a cutter and the one behind that is a launch.
 
The third book was "Constitution, All Sails Up and Flying" by Olof A. Eriksen (2009). This 400 page paperback book (8 1/2" x 11" / 22 cm x 28 cm format) is without a doubt the most comprehensive work on the rigging of a specific ship I've ever seen. Mr. Eriksen received from Tyrone Martin a complete typewritten copy of the detailed notes by Midshipman Edward Clifford Anderson on board Constitution during her re-masting, re-sparring and re-rigging in 1834-35. Eriksen used these notes, comparing them to standard masting and rigging manuals of the period by Steel (the name that had slipped my mind when I made my previous post), Lever and one published by Brady in 1841, and to the Hull model. The book covers these comparisons, spar by spar, line by line and sail by sail from stepping the bowsprit to rigging the mizzen skysail. Every sail is completely detailed, even the stowing of the boats and the rigging of the guns are fully detailed. There are deck plans that show were every line of running and standing rigging was tied off. When Eriksen rigged his model of Constitution he went so far towards historical accuracy as to follow the notes and the manuals to erect the masts exactly as described. He photographed the process and included the photos in the book. He does not cover anything about building the hull for his waterline model, just the masting and rigging.
 

Olof Eriksen and his model of USS Constitution as it appeared one hour before engaging Cyane and Levant on 20 February 1815
 
According to Eriksen he had 4000 hours invested in his model of Constitution up to the beginning of the work described in the book and 20,000 hours upon completion. It took 18 years to build and is made of steel in recognition of her nick name. The model is at a scale of 1/2" = 1 foot (1/24 scale). Completed, it is over 13 feet / 4 meters long, 10 feet / 3 meters tall and 8 feet / 2.5 meters wide with studding sails set. It weighs 1,350 pounds / 610 kg. It is currently in a museum that doesn't even mention it on its website. Like almost anything given away, it is clearly not appreciated. The labor alone is likely worth near $1,000,000. The model has four miniature TV cameras concealed inside the hull to give views of the gun deck. There is a brass plaque in the Captain's cabin, visible to one of the cameras, dedicating the model to Commander Tyrone Martin, USN retired. I bought this book new because every copy available used was at the same price as new or higher! The only library I could find that has a copy is the Library of Congress. At US$83.00 it will be worth every penny and save me a lot of research time.
 
The sparring and rigging manual by William Brady is available as a free e-book. Search:  "The Kedge Anchor" by William Brady
 
The rigging section of the two volume manual by David Steel is also available as a free e-book. Search:  "The Art of Rigging" by David Steel.
 
Both volumes of David Steel's "Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship" (1794) are available in pdf format with membership at Scribd (www.scribd.com). They are also available to read at Steel (This link goes to the Historic Naval Ships Association website.)
 
Darcy Lever's "The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor" is available in a large format (8 1/2" x 11") paperback for US$14.95 from the usual sources. You may find used copies for much less.
 
I was going to post here pdf copies of the Brady and Steel manuals but they are all over the 20MB limit (the largest files are just under 40MB). If anyone wants a pdf of any or all of these just PM me with your e-mail and I'll send them to you.
 
Dave

I would say in general it is generic unless you want to represent a specific ship that has meaning to you or if it's a gift to someone that the ship has meaning to them.  I have done quite a few kit ships and they tend to be specific ships because that is what is advertised by the kit maker.  I do know people that do a lot of research to represent a specific ship and the detail is there, even in the small scale.  Most of my scratch ships are generic because I used plans from books and the plans were generic.  It comes down to you as to what you want, not what others are doing.

Pick a TYPE of ship that you like... the less complex the better - a Hudson River sloop instead of HMS Victory.  Study it across examples of the type, and then pick one to emulate.  Remember, ships did vary ('evolve') over time and individual ships were modified by their various owners.  As for how much detail can be worked into a tiny ship in a bottle I direct your attention and eyeballs to the works of John Fox III - a member of this group.

Mike...
 
   I start with a picture that appeals to me, for example the fruit schooner Regulus in Laszlo & Woodman. What's missing from the drawing is the layout of the deck.
 Regulus was a late 19th century brigantine, and dozens of appropriate deck layouts and detailed drawings of deck furniture are available in Douglass Bennett's book Schooner Sunrise, which is worth adding to your library. Combine a deck from Bennet with the drawing from Laszlo and Woodman and you're on you're way to a fleet of delightful little hybrid models.
  Rigging with me is usually a compromise between the conventions typical of the model I'm doing, what it takes to get the rigging folded to pass the bottle neck and then raised again, and what pleases my eye.
  I also sometimes work from actual plans. I have the steam frigate Mississippi tacked up on my plan board just now and aim to bottle it in a 375 ml liquor flask with as much detail as I can crowd on, once i get clear of the little three-masted schooner currently on my bench, and assuming nothing else catches my eye in the interim.
 
TJ.
 
 

Suggest for the first few that you just do a simple type that appeals to you. Two-masted Banks fishing schooners or early racing yachts that evolved from them are lovely in their simplicity and will allow you to become familiar with the basic SiB techniques without putting in a lot of time on fine details. Most of the SiB books I've seen will take you through a few projects, each more complex than the last, that will build your SiB skill set.
 
I built SiBs for many years all as types to cut the amount of time spent planning and researching a project. Later I became more interested in more accuracy and finer details. For the "type" projects I printed out a photo of the vessel I wanted to build at the size I was planning. If the visible details can't be identified, I left them off, or if they were too small to make. It's better to leave off details than try to include them made grossly out of scale.

To do a vertical SIB depends on the bottle and the ship.  Generally the ship is longer than it is high, thus the longitudinal way is the most common.  I did 2 verticals and in both cases the ship is as tall as it is long.  You want to fill the bottle.  For example the Cutter in Schouten's book is as tall as it is long so if you have nice globe shaped bottle a vertical display would be nicer.

 

Biggest difference between bottling in a horizontal bottle and a vertical one is that the vessel is usually inserted stern first in a horizontal bottle while it is usually better to insert into the vertical bottle bow first. Also in a horizontal bottle many of the control lines are through the bowsprit while in a vertical bottle those lines come through the masts. This would apply to most of the center line stays. Vertical bottles are somewhat more difficult than horizontal but not too much. Vertical bottles with the neck down are challenging and require a very different approach and bottles without a thickened bottom (light bulbs, clear Christmas ornaments and some laboratory bottles come to mind).
 
The larger the neck ID the better, as you realized. I try to keep the ratio of the neck ID to the bottle ID around 1:6 or larger to avoid problems getting the vessel through the neck. At 1:4 (1 inch/25 mm neck and 4 inch/100 mm bottle ID) most full hull models will fit without using a two part hull. At 1:8 a two part hull is frequently required. Two part (or more) hulls are difficult and I avoid them like the plague.
 
Use the best quality bottles you can find. Most single use consumer product bottles distort the view of the models because the glass isn't uniform in thickness with waviness and surface defects. I've seen several very nice models (as far as I could tell) that couldn't be seen well because of wavy, murky, pebbly glass.